That bit of information, incidentally, is not something youll find on Viathons website. installing vinyl sheet flooring on wall . Without the curiousness of the Walmart link, I wouldnt even be writing about Viathon. The frame looks eerily similar to a China carbon frame I bought recently for $400 (frame and rigid fork). The Club will ride Viathon's newly released carbon G.1 gravel bike and send a group of five Elite riders to key events like the Belgian Waffle Ride and Dirty Kanza, two of the most challenging gravel races in the world. When flexing the wheels on hard pedaling, I get some rubbing which viathon attributed to spokes being out of tension, but the clearance is ridiculously minimal. The history of the bicycle business is, in one sense, a history of powerful outsiders coming in to teach us dumb yokels how things are done in the Big Leagues. (The Walmart connection can be found only on the sites copyright line.) But Im a little mystified that the mountain bike is a cross-country hardtail 29er, a style of bike thats pretty out of fashion at the moment. The parts kits feature quality components from premium suppliers. I'm a kiter, and that industry is even worse. Movelo Electric Bicycle for Adults 27.5In 350W Mountain Bike with 360Wh Removable Li-Ion Battery-Blue 27.5" Exclusively angular frame Not available 26" 350W Electric Bike for Adults Mountain eBike w 48V Battery Dual Lights Black Not available 26" Hyper Easy Rider Multi-Speed Bike 26" Hyper Easy Rider Men's Cruiser (29) Not available online Except none of that happened. So, we feel this is a good bike, but maybe that stiffness and the specifics on spec and business model are not for everyone. Someone asked above how can they sell for this much cheaper? We have incredible traffic on our site. Its name is Viathon. 39w. i gave it a spin. Im sure you can find wheels that wouldnt clear, depending upon hub design, and wheels that would be just fine. Walmart buying Rapha would be the latter. Let's see the salaries of engineers at Specialized giving us all these "advancements" in recent years that 90% of people riding mountain bicycles on trails don't need. I dont think people in the market for $2000-5000 bikes would even think to buy at Walmart let alone shoulder the stigma of owning a bike bought at Walmart, right or wrong as that is. What's the point? Who am I kidding. We got bills to pay and we work our asses off for you ya jergoffs. Doubt they are taking a loss, even at these prices. (not sure exactly) into building up a mountain bike mecca in Bentonville, Arkansas. @Greg B We did not experience that issue, but as you say, the clearances are minimal, and that is not an uncommon issue with many combinations of calipers/wheels. Brought on board to run Walmarts online bike sales, he pitched the idea of a standalone brand. Did Viathon offer some bold new technology,jaw-dropping value, or an irresistible brand story? bike And the bikes look good! The parts kits feature quality components from premium suppliers like Fizik, Hed, and Zipp, and the pricing is competitive with a number of brands. Viathon Bikes launched to surprise, confusion and intrigue back in April, offering high-end carbon XC hardtails despite links to Walmart. In 2017, Bonobos was sold to, you guessed it, Walmart. Why would pile-em-high-sell-em-cheap Walmart be interested in such a high-end part of the bicycle market when the market-dominating retailer is already Americas biggest seller of keenly priced bicycles? So, that limits demand. Sure, some R and D for that motorcycle has come from up and down the lineup, but the same can be said for the bike companies. There's this scales of economy thing you should look into: Compare top end to top end, yeah you can get a budget moto for less than an s works, but that is simply because motos prices increase at a much more exponential rate. Viathon equips the M.1 with two clever features that challenge the common definition of an elite cross-country bike. Still others are simply doing their best to sort through the marketing-speak to make a performance-to-value calculation on the best tool to get on the roador into the woods. what happened to viathon bikes. Department-store bikes look a lot better than they used to. ummm.I regularly pass the bikes in walmart on my way to the sporting goods section to buy fishing/hunting stuff and I don't know of these $500 walmart bikes you speak of$250 is about the top price going unless yall have some gucci walmarts wherever this story was based? Walmart's first mountain bike offering is a carbon hardtail called the M.1. As technical editor Dan Cavallari pointed out in our sister publication VeloNews, "Viathon ticks almost all the high-end boxes for a bike with a lower pricepoint. For now, no. The bikes themselves, it was agreed, were competently designed and engineered, and marketed by respected industry professionals with big-brand credentials. Walmart is also the largest grocer in America and possibly the world. Right? New bike brands come and go, but its rare that one makes as big of a splash with its debut as Viathon, a new direct-to-consumer marquee that launched this week. Mountain bikes that rival the cost of motorcycles, silly parts that cost $30 for a $5 part, extremely expensive tools (because Park Tools is worse than Snap-On), etc. If they add a similarly specced and priced short or mid travel fs bike, those things will sell like hot cakes. VIATHON BICYCLES SPONSORS CAFFEINE AND WATTS CLUB. A Redshift Sports ShockStop Stem tamed the harsh vibrations coming from the Viathons beefy carbon fork. First, this hardtail gets more than just the usual 100mm-travel fork. The GX spec would be tempting if the geometry and looks weren't reminiscent of my 2009 Stumpy hardtail. Viathon is a start-up carbon bike brand with a difference. RZC Investments, founded by Tom and Steuart Walton, grandsons of Walmart founder Sam Walton, owns Rapha and part-owns Allied Cycle Works, a high-end bike manufacturer based in Little Rock, Arkansas. Thats a call youll have to make. Be good if they build some good stuff as oddly it seems they will give back. Spesh's Fuse 27.5 comes to mind, costing ~$1200. In road bikes, the R.1 comes as a frameset ($2,000), as well as in three complete bike options, all with Shimano groupsets - 105 ($2,300), Ultegra ($3,575) and Dura-Ace ($5,850), each equipped with disc brakes. It turns out that Walmart bike buyers, as much as theyre dismissed or even ridiculed, include some passionate fans. ($1k frame only pricing). There is certainly a fair amount of seat post extension to work with there., explained Andy T. Hes right too. A few things are apparent with Viathon. All Viathon bikes come with a 2-year warranty. If it's the latter, I hear the bikes will be spec'd with negative-51mm offset forks Another thing to note is high-end mountain bikes is still a tiny market when compared to motorcycles/cars/etc. And who cares what other people think? It uses four R12 bearings and everything is held together by the crank's 19mm spindle. We tested the brand's top-end M.1 Mountain Bike for 6 weeks to gain an. Walmart.com, of course, is an internet behemoth with hundreds of millions of visitor sessions each month with peak holiday traffic topping half a billion, according to analyses by industry research firms SimilarWeb and Statista. I want to figure out how to use that customer base to grow the bike industry.. best army base in germany is dr abraham wagner married is dr abraham wagner married My surfing friends friends and others who are "action sports oriented" are super hesitant to bike at first due to the cost of entry, fear of injury, etc. Its one of the biggest online merchants in the world, No. The G.1 is the direct-to-consumer brand's competitively priced gravel bike. Yeah I'm in Australia and I know this, along with they do a bit for some mtb community's and trails. Vitus Bikes offer an award winning range of Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Ebikes and more. Despite this pedigree, Tom and Steuart Walton had no hand in launching Viathon. In effect, the brand is a sortie into a high-end scene, allowing Walmart to test the waters of a rarefied market. But the move that really set the cat among the industry pigeons was the Viathon sales strategy, which at least strongly hinted at distribution via Walmart.com. The mountain bike is the perfect companion to discover new things off the beaten track. It can take 650b wheels with up to 2.1-inch tires, or 700c wheels with. The motorcycle comparison is nothing to do with whether its top spec blaa blaa blaa. Needs another $ 1,000 price drop still. But Ive never seen the numbers. Unless they are basically making no money on the bikes, I find it hard to see how they could undercut their competition, especially considering the frames themselves don't really often anything out of the ordinary. Who does this serve?! As for the wheels, Viathon M.1 GX Eagle 2021, has a 29 aluminum model. They don't know from Canyon et al. Same price as the Grail 7 AL right now, both have quite race-y aspects to them. Almost all carbon frames come from Asia, and different brands often subcontract with the same large producers. The tires were Schwalbe Lugano which sell around $10 each. And failing. Dollar-for-dollar there are other carbon-framed high-end bikes out there that undercut the Viathon offerings. It's like the lineup are marketed just like any other Walmart products, and the bike prices don't make sense. They have dumped millions into cycling in AK, even helping to fund the Arkansas High Country Route. I followed with an opinion column about Viathon's unique formation, business model and value proposition. He said that he originally felt that the rear triangle was fairly smooth, but now that the excessive vibrations have been tamed up front, the rear stiffness jumped out as something he didnt feel was as comfortable. And 2 years ago, the company hired Zach Spinhirne-Martin, a senior buyer at CompetitiveCyclist.com. Shop all Genesis Bikes with sizes ranging from 18" to 700c, in kids and adults sizes. The brand is starting with three models: the R1 road bike, the G1 gravel bike, and the M1 hardtail mountain bike. Manufacturing costs vary inversely with manufacturing rate. Andy T described the handling as stock as being razor sharp, so from that standpoint, riders looking for a more road racing leaning gravel bike should be satisfied with the G1. Like was stated, much of the pricing for this sport is utterly absurd. And while low, Viathon pricing was at parity with any number of other name-brand carbon models, including Trek, Specialized, Cannondale and Canyon. Moto shops are fine with 35% margin where most bike shops wouldnt talk to you without keystone margins (50%). Walmart is hoping to entice customers to Viathon with a no-questions-asked return policy. Viathon's staff is made up of bike industry veterans, and the company has partnered with Kevin Quan Studios for its design and engineering. We don't need a review. Oct 2, 2019 by James Smurthwaite Viathon Bikes launched to surprise, confusion and intrigue back in April, offering high-end carbon XC hardtails despite links to Walmart. Will these bikes be sold in a box and assembled by the owner? Or is the front-end harshness that pronounced? Or assembled in store by Walmart employees???? What is this, a bicycle for ants?? And that right there is the problem with any form of cycling, "my bike is better than yours" bullshit mantra. He doesnt have a marketing team: he outsources that to Idaho-based Cranktank, the PR and marketing outfit led by Adrian Montgomery, ex of Scott, and Scott Montgomery, ex of both Cannondale and Scott and who is also the current president of Reynolds Cycling. Certainly, there are many Walmart shoppers among us, though likely few who have bought a bike there. The Viathon M.1 is available in three complete build kit options, starting at $2,400 USD. I'd be interested in something like this (depending on where I lived) but it would likely be a third or more mountain bike for me and that seems unlikely. For the hardtail mountain bike, thats a $2,000 frame, $2,400 GX Eagle build, $3,500 X01 build (which comes without a dropper), or a $6,000 XX1 option. That's a lot to love. Right now, Viathon sits on the value end of the spectrum, alongside other house brands like Scattante or the now-closed Foundry: perfectly fine, but not particularly compelling. Viathon M.1 GX Eagle Mountain Bike Review | SRAM GX EagleI was amazed how light this bike was and how well it climbed!Viathon was kind enough to send me over. Since the news was announced last week, fans have been coming out and saying that this is what theyve been waiting for. The brand is starting with three models: the R1 road bike, the G1 gravel bike, and the M1 29er MTB. not bad at all. There may be a slightly lower initial cost but damn, these are gonna have terrible resale value. ViathonBicycles.com newsletter codes, Viathon Bicycles reseller codes, Viathon Bicycles competitor coupon codes. All the frames are carbon fiber, and the gravel and road models fit solidly within current design trends that prize features like disc brakes and clearance for wider tires. As a straight-up road bike, wed have no issues with the Viathon G1. It's funny - as a surfer, I'm seeing a lot of people who typically spend mediocre wave days in the water scrapping for a lousy ride now turn towards mountain biking as their go-to activity when the waves are garbage. 2G for 105, 1.5G for a frame. Viathon is hitting the market with three model families. Bike industry seems super healthy (at least outside looking in), coming from the moto world. Read Review. Now with over twenty years under our belt we know more than ever how important the ride really is. By July, barely 90 days from its glitzy premiere, Viathon had announced via direct mail and on its website that it was dropping prices on all models by as much as $1,000 per bike, to as low as $1,998. It's not the products: a three-frame range of MTBs, and gravel and road bikes. We tested ways to dial out that feeling, like installing a ShockStop stem, and even to the point of using ridiculously low tire pressures, but as is, this bike is on the harsh side. But it is building out a platform not just with more and better bikes, but with video and editorial support. A slacker/longer hardtail in the Chameleon/Honzo mold, with carbon frame for $2k might get people looking. They are direct to consumer from the website, just like Canyon. bike brands don't make as much as you think per unit. And that is the point. Cue the cheap-crap jokes. It's well documented in various media outlets. First they took our jerbs, and they're taking our guns! I know you're talking frame only, but at least this one ships with tires that actually fit the frame (unlike the DV9, which has known problem with tire rub on the tires it ships with). So take the roads less traveled, or the ones that don't even show up on the . Full on rippers. Viathon Bicycles announced today it will sponsor the Caffeine and Watts Club. reviewed it. I want high-level quality customer service to begin with, and I can control that in the US.. The M.1 is the first mountain bike from Viathon, and from the sound of things, it won't be the last. Stock yz250 is a joke compared to what actual supercross athletes ride. Your email address will not be published. a buddy of mine, bought the g1 gravel bike to keep at his lakehouse (insert dentist joke, he's actually a cpa). Climbing and racing bikes made of carbon are tough enough for tumbles and rough riding. Bayside Women's Cruiser Bike, Rose Gold 1385 Pickup 2-day shipping Best seller $648.00 Hyper Bicycles Electric Bicycle Pedal Assist Mountain, 26 In. Dont squint at the pix. bicycling the forks face the right way. Be here, Virtually. @roma258: It's a catch 22. But Quan is the only person mentioned in a team of top bicycle industry veterans with decades of collective experience. The only other real face behind Viathon is brand manager Zach Spinhirne-Martin, who spent nine years with the online retailer Competitive Cyclist before joining Walmart as its bike category manager. Spinhirne-Martin tells me to look around the Laguna Seca Raceway, which is teeming with fans, baggy shorts-wearing bros, and Lycra-clad racers with rippling muscles. Marketing has been slow-burn so far, rolling out a website and social media, getting journalists on the bikes at Sea Otter, and paying for GCNs Simon Richardson to ride the G1 from Outerbike in an advertorial video posted on 12th July and which has already had 34,000 views. The brake were the same Tektro brakes on a 2300 or Sora bike. The point is, a Viathon purchase does not include some intangibles that are benefits of buying in a traditional model. I think bikes are priced high and I think the margins are higher than in other enterprises. Moosejaw now sells cycling gear on their website and has a retail bike shop in Birmingham, MI. I spoke with him at the recent Outerbike expo in Idaho, the second public outing for the brand. So this is competing against the Ibis DV9? Thread starter nakman; Start date Apr 12, 2019; nakman Club Secretary . Outside's long reads email newsletter features our strongest writing, most ambitious reporting, and award-winning storytelling about the outdoors. Nowadays, a search for Viathon bikes on the Walmart website (see here, here and here) returns a notice that the item is no longer available; the image from the final link (also shown above) displays another brand and model entirely. Lots of things coming from different directions can sometimes become out of whack enough to cause a problem. Some cyclists are extremely brand-loyal, willing to pay a premium for pride in heritage brands like Bianchi or Pinarello. February edition of BikeBiz magazine now available, Pros perspective: Olly Wilkins on DMRs new ODub Bars, MTB clothing brand Dharco aims to expand in Europe, The top five jobs in the bike trade this week 3rd March, German custom bike brand Velo De Ville to launch in UK at The Cycle Show 2023, Ribble Cycles launches new collective of riders, Squire releases its first range of wearable cycle locks, SRAM releases new Force AXS groupset, developed for WorldTour pros. houses for sale hervey bay $250,000 to; gwinnett county gun show 2021; eagle point elementary school staff; super shuttle sanford airport Every single mountain bike I owned is used, unlike a motorcycle they should not depreciate as much (mileage) because there are few moving parts..I currently ride an RM Altitude MSRP $6k + tax however I bought it used and paid less then the cheapest Viathon bike!!! Prices of big brand quality mountain bikes jumped the shark years ago. But to drive the demand, there needs to be a product in place to capture attention. Some of that is a function of the homogeneity of the modern bike-enthusiast business. http://www.walmart.com/cp/viathon-bikes/8471299? Hopefully they turn over some % of these bikes into more trail advocacy. So we have the greatest potential to reach a larger subset of the American population than any bike shop, or any other brand, he claims. We cannot predict, or really have a way to know, when, or by how much, a brand is going to discount a product. But the bikes are neither crap nor cheap. Our gravel, road, and triathlon bikes are designed, tested, and assembled in North America; engineered for performance, and crafted with rider-first geometry. It has more clearance and a modern, slack trail geometry that keeps things loose no matter how tough the terrain gets. Will hopefully bring the prices down across the board. Viathon bikes. When I worked for Fly racing in sales it was a tough barrier going from Moto shops to bicycle. As we continue to build out the platform, we welcome other brands, said Spinhirne-Martin. bikeit! $2000 is still steep for an entry level hardtail, especially without at 27.5+ option. Viathon is for riders who appreciate uncontrived quality, demand craftsmanship but recognize value, who pedal for health yet savor the ride. Doesn't seem like anyone is really sold on Viathon though. Surprised it hasn't happened already or will it appear on tomorrow's front page! Have your questions answered, get a virtual tour of our showroom, collect measurements, or talk about financing options. But if Walmart must have some data that shows theyll sell some of these. Viathon is a standalone direct-to-consumer brand that, by rights, shouldnt exist. Time for competition to drive down the absurd prices on bikes. The brand is starting with three models: the R1 road bike, the G1 gravel bike, and the M1 hardtail mountain bike. In that sense, Viathon hit the nail on the head.. Its easier and faster for me to expand our bike offering online than it is to go into stores. When used in conjunction with good cultural management practices and as part of a complete disease control program, viAtHOntM will control/suppress specified diseases associated with almond, barley, corn, grasses grown for seed, onions, peanuts, pecans, pistachio, soybeans, walnut, watermelons, and wheat. Now, if Viathon frames were suddenly produced in the USA my American hands, with progressive geometry and class leading weights, that might be a different story - but a Taiwanese sourced frame that is pretty much identical to a Hong Fu or Workswell or whatever isn't really a selling point, especially when it costs a few grand. Savvy consumers may baulk at the Walmart connections not just because of the value connotations but also the corporates reputation for poor labour relations but nor is Viathon a bike brand for the decal-focussed. Walmart hopes its own expensive bike will be proof of concept to attract mainstream brands to that marketplace brands that previously opted out, like Evil and Niner, which are both sold at Walmart-owned Moosejaw.com. Shoppers will have four build choices per model. He wants to grow the brand slowly but steadily. Huh, no one wanted to buy a $6k hardtail that has no track record? Probably trying to compete with REI. The bikes look pretty good on paper, and the price points are very slim for what you get. The Bike Forum. Apt analogy. The G.1, one of 3 models launched by Viathon, is a modern gravel bike with a 1,010g claimed 54cm frame weight with hardware. Walmart already has impeccable high-end bicycle connections. That makes sense. Well I'm kinda torn here. Shop our Buy Direct collection for a new ride they'll love! The brand is starting with three models . At this writing, the various models are listed at "Summer Sale" prices on the Viathon website. Its not a bad platform though, and for the right situations, it would serve the rider spectacularly well. For those who dont want to deal with immediate upgrades and want a more compliant bike, I would advise to look elsewhere. "Of course, there was some backlash with the Walmart connection,'' said Mark Jordan, whose CrankTank marketing group staged the Viathon launch and was quoted in Yobbi's original article. All Viathon bikes come with a 2-year warranty. I won't shop with them. Although I 100% agree, I'm sure your comment will be downed by most here. The bikes will be available to order within weeks. Their investments are totally separate from Walmart even though Steuart is on the main Walmart board.. refresh results with search filters open search menu. The tire clearances are a bit on the restrictive side as well. Honestly the bike prices are high because people buy them LOL. @alex There are better bikes in regard to front end compliance than the Viathon. Tommaso Sentiero Gravel Bike, Shimano Claris Adventure Bike with Disc Brakes, Extra Wide Tires, Perfect for Road Or Dirt Trail Touring, Matte Black, Red Visit the Tommaso Store 60 ratings | 40 answered questions Price: $844.99 Color: Matte Black/Red Size: Select See more About this item They also have their own brands, among which there's their B-Twin brand of bikes and bike accessories brand. Spinhirne-Martin says yes, and reiterated that he wants to grow the bike industry, not put other brands or bike shops out of business. Or did you have its sale / closeout pricing in mind ($1,599)? Its a night and day difference!, exclaimed Andy. I like his channel and all but want to see people ride bikes like I would or better. The bike arrives 98 percent pre-assembled the customer has to tighten on pedals, install the front wheel, and attach the front face plate over the handlebar. GearJunkie Copyright 2013 2023. Frame weight is a claimed 1,010 grams for size 54, including derailleur hardware and bottle cage bolts. I have noted that we are not the only ones saying this, for what it is worth. Viathon was his idea, springing from his background as a former pro rider, a one-time USA Cycling team mechanic and latterly a web commerce geek with Backcountry.com and before that Competitivecyclist.com. When everyones selling a $3,500-ish Shimano Ultegra disc-equipped carbon gravel bike with an oversize headtube, asymmetric rear triangle, and scads of tire clearance, its a little hard to stand apart from the crowdeven when there are real differences. Its not the products: a three-frame range of MTBs, and gravel and road bikes. Viathon is run as a digitally native vertical brand, a phrase coined by Andy Dunn, founder of US menswear brand Bonobos. And while the bikes may be sold on Walmarts website at some point, theres no mention ofselling in stores, which would put the bikes in front of a broader audience. WhatsApp. 3 for online traffic after Google and Amazon. No mention of any real pertinent specs that you'd expect when buying a bike. And I want to get more people on bikes. Viathon will benefit from the supply side muscle of Walmart, it may even one day be sold in Walmart stores, but it wont ever market itself as offering Walmart bikes., Australian MTB lifestyle brand Dharco has officially opened its European subsidiary, and has plans to, The BikeBiz jobs board helped filled over 740 positions in 2022, and listings are still, German custom bike brand Velo De Ville is due to launch in the UK and, Ribble Cycles has just announced a new collective of sponsored ridings, competing across various disciplines., Historic lock brand Squire has launched its first range of wearable security equipment for the, SRAM has released the latest development in its Force AXS groupset, including a new shifter. If successful, Viathon can be rolled out widely, claimed Spinhirne-Martin.With the backing of Walmart, we can scale very quickly., Im focusing on the US right now. Join Outside+ to get Outside magazine, access to exclusive content, 1,000s of training plans, and more. Does a rising tide lift all boats? While you could swap to 650B wheels, and the bike can carry a front rack, there isnt a lot of versatility built in here beyond that. At any rate, the Viathon G1 is an interesting option that we hope to see developed into something more refined in the areas of rider comfort, versatility, and geometry in the future. Dave Rome Apr 2020. we must also look at what it costs to produce in numbers. as all the other big brands. c'mon. I wanted to make bikes that I would want to ride, says Spinhirne-Martin. Too many highly paid engineers on staff working on "advancements" that most riders never needed. You can buy the same frames on aliexpress for under $300, or if you're more risk-adverse you can buy them through this guy: Perhaps we'll see a revolution that surfing seems to be having. Take YouTuber KevCentral, for example, whose channel reviews bikes available at Walmart and Walmart.com and how to upgrade them. Don't need. 1600 is still not going to mitigate the way this bike rides, and that is maybe something some folks wouldnt be willing to compromise on at any price. Its a fine balance caused by the nature of disc brake calipers, front wheel spacing, hub flange spacing, and wheel design. Unbelievable a$$holes, TLDR: "successful family chooses to enjoy their success while remaining frugal to ensure long term multigenerational wealth". Viathon made a big splash when it announced its presence to the bicycle world back in April, leveraging the cost-efficiency muscle of its parent company, Walmart, into a line of carbon bikes that . All this went down in April and May of this year. Unlike, say, the car industry, its relatively cheap to launch into the world of making bicycles, even bespoke framed ones. Browse. But if Viathon is going to have any real impact, its the next set of new bikes that will matter most. The Waltons own Moosejaw. There are many many people for whom Wmart is their entire mass produced goods consumption experience. Bike shops could benefit from more riders on more bikes. It's very hard to make it and also find decent paying work. Writing in 2016, Dunn wrote: Digitally native vertical brands (DNVBs) are maniacally focused on the customer experience and they interact, transact, and story-tell to consumers primarily on the web., Dunn added: The DNVB is born on the internet. They also have controlling interests in Rapha and Allied Cycles. Viathon Bikes - Walmart.com. Way too much focus on the manufacturing/engineering side on squeezing out that next 1% gain in performance, then convincing us through marketing (or forcing us in the case of Boost) that we need it. Waiting for Whole Foods to offer MTBs. We wanted to create a non-intimidating platform, said Spinhirne-Martin. Although from a bike industry perspective, the geometry is a few years outdated even for a hardtail.